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    GBA Scene >> GBA Discussion Board >> Message started by: fab on 06/29/01 at 09:53:55

Title: New Cezar releases not dupes...
Post by: fab on 06/26/01 at 09:44:10

I got around to checking the two new CEZAR releases:

Rayman Advance (EUR) and Super Mario Advance (EUR)

and they don't appear to be dupes.

Rayman Advance (EUR) has the same serial and complement as the previous European release by MENACE, however it is definitely a different ROM. A simple binary comparison confirms that. The ROM header doesn't indicate that it is a different version but it must be. I don't think it can or should be counted as a dupe.

Super Mario Advance which the NFO and this and other sites indicate as a EUROPEAN release has a USA serial (which is different from the previous USA serial): AGB-AMAE-USA. It also has a different complement from both the previous JPN and USA releases and is definitely extremely different when a binary file compare is performed.

Anyway.. my point is that these two releases definitely don't appear to be dupes and should be counted in any list, etc.

--
fab

Title: Re: New Cezar releases not dupes...
Post by: HeXadec on 06/26/01 at 13:12:43

The mario release DOES have a USA header but is the UK/Euro release. the art itself says AMAP but when dumped header shows AMAE.

Saying that, they are STILL dupes, simply because there are already versions of these games released and we don't need another.

Lightforces german release of Tony Hawk and the Milkmen release of F-Zero are also dupes. Theres nothing different (they may compare differently, but ingame whats the actual difference?) so arent needed. German language DEFINITELY arent needed, English/Japanese only.

Title: Re: New Cezar releases not dupes...
Post by: fab on 06/26/01 at 17:16:01

That's not how any other console/rom scene has ever been. Why should the GBA scene be different? Tradition has always shown that multiple language releases of the same game have always counted. Look at the 1000+ GBC releases just to prove this. If you took out all of the non-releases you'd have a lot less. Same with N64 scene. Why should you or I or anyone say that a German release of THPS2 is any less important or count-worthy than the English release. It is DEFINITELY not a dupe. If you are saying that only English releases should count, then the EUROPEAN or USA versions of every game previously released should not be counted. That is hogwash. Bleh. I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way. A dupe is a dupe. A different version of a previously released game is not a dupe. The two CEZAR releases are NOT DUPES. I compared them myself.

--
fab

Title: Re: New Cezar releases not dupes...
Post by: Acey on 06/27/01 at 01:09:58

You're right about the binaries being different, I checked that too, but according to the header, this European release isn't that European at all, which is why I concidered it a dupe, as Eurasia already released the US version, which did have a slightly different US header, maybe a beta or demo cart?

I cannot comment on Rayman though as I didn't bother to check that one after looking at the header.

Tony Hawks GERMAN isn't a dupe and I haven't marked it as one either, just like the old N64/GBC days a different language version isn't counted as a dupe, no need to change that.

Nintendo messing with the country codes on the GBA isn't nice though! :)

Title: Re: New Cezar releases not dupes...
Post by: HeXadec on 06/27/01 at 01:32:31

on 06/26/01 at 17:16:01, fab wrote:

That's not how any other console/rom scene has ever been.

I take it you've never heard of PSX or DC then?

PAL (Euro dupes) After a USA release, no matter how different they are are just dupes.

USA after a PAL (Euro) release is a dupe.

Foreign languages that <1% of the human race read are dupes.

Nobody wants the gba to end up like the gbc with 30 different versions of a game, English, french, german, spanish, v1.1, v1.2 etc - thats just crap, and so I'll carry on counting them as dupes.

The only person who will be happy with all these dupes is cowering (mong, window licker, joey, spastic and many other things I could call him) and cowering followers, who'll rename all there roms to:

"F Zero Maximum Velocity (J) V1.1.gba(!)(H)(T)[b1]"

With the spaces, and lfn's and all the other shit in there - NOBODY wants them - we all want them to die, die painfully - they pollute the world.

Title: Re: New Cezar releases not dupes...
Post by: fab on 06/27/01 at 10:07:29

I don't like the Cowering tools any more than you do..

..but a European release no matter what the language is not a dupe... you state that a USA version after a PAL version is a dupe... and that a PAL version after a USA version is a dupe.. right? Yet your own release list, http://members.tripod.co.uk/bin4ry/hex-gba.txt, counts both USA and European releases of several games.. at least be consistent. All or nothing in my opinion.

I haven't been really paying attention to either the DC or PSX scene so I can't comment. But if that's the way they do it, fine.

The GBA should really follow previous ROM console scenes such as GBC and N64. So what if there are a million releases? They are all checked and logged by many people and useful enough to many more that keeping track of ALL of them is necessary. Subport.org has done an outstanding job at keeping track of all the GBC releases. I'm sure he doesn't condone the Cowering Tools either, but he and others see the need for such a complete list. Besides, without a list so complete there would be a lot more confusion. A lot of people use the Subport list as the end-all be-all list of GBC releases with good reason. Subport's GBC lists and RedboX's N64 lists have set the standard for the GBA scene. Why should it be changed? If you don't want a German version of Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 or a Japanese version of some ROM, fine.

I'm sure that more people want a complete list with multi-version, multi-country, and other so-called "dupe" releases than a stripped down release list that some guy put together because he didn't want to keep track of everything.

anyway... to each his own.

--
fab

Title: Re: New Cezar releases not dupes...
Post by: HeXadec on 06/27/01 at 11:51:55

on 06/27/01 at 10:07:29, fab wrote:

you state that a USA version after a PAL version is a dupe... and that a PAL version after a USA version is a dupe.. right? Yet your own release list, http://members.tripod.co.uk/bin4ry/hex-gba.txt, counts both USA and European releases of several games.. at least be consistent. All or nothing in my opinion.

Thats an unupdated version which has been changed, just not yet updated. Some releases will stand (The Konami Krazy Racers for instance, as it IS different)

Quote:

The GBA should really follow previous ROM console scenes such as GBC and N64.

Why should it? I'm sure the PSX/DC should of followed the Snes, but it didn't. Not everything has to be the same.

Quote:

Subport's GBC lists and RedboX's N64 lists have set the standard for the GBA scene. Why should it be changed?

Yes, they set the standard for N64 and GBC, but to ask you a question, why SHOULDNT it be changed?

Quote:

I'm sure that more people want a complete list with multi-version, multi-country, and other so-called "dupe" releases than a stripped down release list that some guy put together because he didn't want to keep track of everything.

I think you'll find I DO keep track of everything, my list DOES include everything, but it doesnt assign them a release number, just giving them DUPE instead - it doesnt take any more/less time than giving them a number, but it just may save someone else releasing a dupe and it having to be nuked.

Nobody NEEDS a German release, English is the language of the world, that is why English after Japanese is generally accepted, German is just a dirty language used by a tiny minority of the world. Why flood with it, it's not wanted or needed, the GBC is total shite due to the amount of crap that gets put out, maybe if it got nuked as dupes more often, people would give up trying to release it.

Title: Re: New Cezar releases not dupes...
Post by: RedboX on 06/27/01 at 12:03:49

For what it's worth, your both sort of right

Hexadec is basicaly saying is there are 2 versions of the game, one with Japanesse Language, one with English Language, anything else gets nuked, so if the PAL version is released first, the USA version whould be a dupe, and visaversa.

Thats fairly standard practace on most sites, the PSX and DC scene even more so, mostly as theres no point to all the multiple versions of one game just taking up huge amounts of disk space.

Fab is saying that all releases should be counted, which is true, if group A release game A and its nuked as it's a DUPE, if it's not documented somewhere whats to stop group B releasing the same game (and groups C,D,E & F).

Part of the reason why so many different versions of the same game are released on the N64 is due in part to thier size (20meg average contrasted to 700meg average of a DC/PSX game) and partly due to me. Yes thats right, I was there when the "N64 scene started", back in Feburary 1997 there was a lot of debate about the PAL vesion of Mario and Pilot Wings, ie: should they be nuked, and in the end I said "sod it, they are only small lets just keep them". So there you have it I'm to blame for it all.

Personaly I think that my method is the best (of course) and that all releases dupes/fakes/corrupt/valid or whatever should be included, but with some form of feedback.

What GoodGBA lacks (in common with all the goodtools) is any form of visabilty as to who decided what release is overdumped/bad/whatever. Cowering and his teams are not gods they are not all knowing, if I have any objections to a certain game being called overdumped there is no method for me to contact the team and give them my views.

And NO I'm not going to start a GBA list, the whole GBA scene just despresses me with it's lameness, it's basicaly an emulator scene full of people trying to proffiteer from it.

Title: Need for German Releases
Post by: King Arthur on 06/28/01 at 10:15:45

Well thank you, hexadec, I belong to that tiny minority of German speaking people.

To answer to your question "Who needs German releases?" : the Germans. At least some of them. As Gameboy is more or less a toy many kids want to play the games. If in English the won't understand them. (If there's a lot of text involved)

In games like Namco Museum there is no text, but for others the publisher might want to sell their titles (and Germany is quite a BIG market for computer and video games!)

Do you understand Japanese?
Well, most of the world probably doesn't. I do not know how often I cursed Japanese companies for not translating good games (esp. RGPs).

I personally don't really care if German translations get release numbers or not, but they should. I find it very self-centered to monopolize the scene just to US(English)/Jap releases. Think about it!

-KaT

Title: Re: New Cezar releases not dupes...
Post by: NorQue on 06/29/01 at 09:53:55

Being german myself I could very well live without german games... the language sucks and games usually get translated very poorly.

But on the other hand... who cares? It's not like you have to spend one or two hours to download a game like DC, PSX or PS2 - GBA ROMs are on your HD within several seconds. They don't use up Gigabytes of space like ISOs, too, and you don't have to waste your hard-earned money on more and more CD-Rs just to burn the latest crapp releases... all it takes is a (precious?) minute of your time to flash it to FA Cart, nothing else.

I can't really see a reason in not counting different releases... as long as it's not just a "oh, the manufacturer byte has changed" release like there were so many on GBC (--> from groups like HS, RPF, GBL or HTS). As long as there's a real difference like 1.0 --> 1.1, JAP/US --> Multi it should be counted...

Ah well, since I'm not a member of the "real" scene (which won't stay the "real" scene, very long if it doesn't follow the mainstream IMHO... www-lamers like most people in #gba will will make the rules then, what will be nuked and what not won't be decided on topsites anymore but on www.gbaXXXs.com or ISONews for example) my opinion doesn't count anyways, but I thought my 0.02$ might interest you...

-- NorQue

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